As long as Man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings, he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love
Not Pythagoras — a modern paraphrase of OvidOvid (the idea, not the wording)43 BC – AD 17/18 · Roman poet
No writing by Pythagoras survives. The idea comes from the speech Ovid gives him in Metamorphoses XV: whoever cuts a calf’s throat is “prepar[ing] himself for shedding human blood.” None of these sentences is in that speech, though. The earliest source Wikiquote cites for this wording is Jon Wynne-Tyson’s The Extended Circle (1985).
“As long as Man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings, he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love” Not Pythagoras — a modern paraphrase. The idea echoes Ovid, Metamorphoses XV.463–465; the earliest source Wikiquote cites for this wording is Jon Wynne-Tyson, The Extended Circle (1985). — Quotle.info
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In context
Evoking the world of Ovid — Roman poet, author of the Metamorphoses. Theme: "As long as Man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings, he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love". Atmospheric and restrained, cinematic directional light, a muted period-appropriate palette, fine grain and texture. Compose with generous empty space for the quote and a small credit line. No lettering in the image itself.
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Minimalist editorial slide for the quote "As long as Man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings, he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love". Clean background, a single muted accent color, generous negative space, subtle paper or linen texture, no literal illustration — let the words carry it. Reserve clear space for a serif quote and a small credit line. No lettering in the image itself.
Provenance
The closest real text
Work
Metamorphoses, Book XV, lines 463–465
Author
Ovid (completed by AD 8), in a speech he gives to Pythagoras
Translation
Henry T. Riley, 1851 prose translation (Project Gutenberg eBook #26073)
Popular wording
Not found in this speech
How greatly he disgraces himself, how in his impiety does he prepare himself for shedding human blood, who cuts the throat of the calf with the knife, and gives a deaf ear to its lowings! or who can kill the kid as it sends forth cries like those of a child; or who can feed upon the bird to which he himself has given food. How much is there wanting in these instances for downright criminality? A {short} step {only} is there thence {to it}!
Ovid's real lines, not the popular quote
Ovid, Metamorphoses XV.463–465, in Henry T. Riley’s 1851 translation; the braces are Riley’s. Ovid’s argument, that killing animals leads to killing people, is the seed of the modern quote. But “ruthless destroyer of lower living beings,” “massacre animals,” “kill each other” and “seed of murder and pain” appear nowhere in the speech.
Wikiquote’s Pythagoras page ↗ gives the full three-sentence line as an “Attribution to Pythagoras by Ovid.” Its only sources are modern: Jon Wynne-Tyson’s The Extended Circle: A Dictionary of Humane Thought (1985), p. 260, and Vegetarian Times No. 168 (August 1991), p. 4.
Wynne-Tyson’s anthology was published in 1985 by Centaur (Internet Archive record ↗). The scan is lending-only, so we could not read page 260 to see what source, if any, it gives.
We checked the speech of Pythagoras in Ovid’s Metamorphoses XV in Riley’s 1851 translation ↗. It has “dainties without slaughter and bloodshed” and “one living creature to exist through the death of another living creature.” It does not have the popular sentences.
In Ovid’s Latin ↗, the nearest lines are XV.463–465: “quam male consuescit, quem se parat ille cruori / inpius humano, vituli qui guttura ferro / rumpit.” That is about preparing oneself for human bloodshed. It says nothing of “health or peace” or “joy and love.”
The popular English wording has no identifiable author or first publication: the earliest source Wikiquote cites is a 1985 anthology, which we could not read. So we make no rights claim for it. Ovid’s Latin and Henry T. Riley’s 1851 translation (quoted above) are in the public domain, but neither contains this wording.
Rights status is our research, not legal advice — and copyright varies by country and edition. For commercial or published use, confirm with the rightsholder. See terms.
Fact-check
Why it gets pinned on Pythagoras
This is one of the most widely shared “Pythagoras” lines on vegetarian and animal-rights sites. It borrows real authority: Ovid made Pythagoras the voice of a famous anti-meat sermon. But the wording is modern.
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Popular creditPythagoras No surviving writings
“No authentic writings of Pythagoras have survived,” notes Wikipedia ↗. Every saying credited to him comes through later writers, and none of them has been shown to contain this one.
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Usual “source”Ovid, Metamorphoses XV Idea, not words
Ovid’s Pythagoras does argue that a man who cuts a calf’s throat “prepare[s] himself for shedding human blood” (Riley translation ↗). The three popular sentences are not in the speech.
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Where the wording surfacesModern humane-thought anthologies 1985 / 1991
Wikiquote ↗ sources the line only to Jon Wynne-Tyson’s The Extended Circle (1985) and Vegetarian Times (August 1991), with no ancient citation.
✓This is a modern paraphrase in Pythagoras’s name. It loosely echoes Ovid’s Metamorphoses XV.463–465 (Latin text ↗), but no ancient author is known to have written these sentences.
Context
Why the line sounds ancient
Ovid’s Metamorphoses, finished by AD 8, ends with a long lecture by Pythagoras against eating animals. As Wikipedia ↗ notes, “his teachings as portrayed in Ovid’s Metamorphoses would later influence the modern vegetarian movement.” That is why modern vegetarian writing so often quotes him.
Over time, anthologies and magazines turned Ovid’s argument into tidier, modern-sounding sayings. This one even serves as the caption of Rubens’s painting Pythagoras Advocating Vegetarianism on Wikiquote ↗. The idea is old, but these words are not.
A short step only is there thence to it.
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Filed under
More provenance-checked quotes on the same theme, each with its reuse status.
43 BC – AD 17/18 · Roman poet, author of the Metamorphoses
Publius Ovidius Naso had finished his mythological epic, the Metamorphoses, by AD 8. Its final book opens with a long speech by Pythagoras that urges people to stop eating meat. In that speech Ovid argues that a man who kills a calf or a kid is training himself to shed human blood. That is the real seed of this modern quote, but Ovid never wrote the sentences that circulate today.
For writers & researchers
Cite this
Closest real text
Wording not found in any ancient source. Earliest printing cited by Wikiquote: Jon Wynne-Tyson, The Extended Circle: A Dictionary of Humane Thought (Fontwell: Centaur, 1985), 260. Compare Ovid, Metamorphoses 15.463–465, trans. Henry T. Riley (1851).
This verification page
Quotle.info. “Who really said ‘As long as Man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings, he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love’?” Last verified 3 Nov 2026. https://quotle.info/who-said/as-long-as-man-continues-to-be-the-ruthless-destroyer-of/