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Who really said it

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise

Not Socrates — written by Kenneth John Freeman (1907) Kenneth John Freeman
Attribution status: Disputed Reuse status: Rights unconfirmed

The words are a modern paraphrase of a passage in Kenneth John Freeman’s Cambridge dissertation Schools of Hellas (1907), p. 74 — Freeman’s OWN summary of the complaints Athenians of Socrates’ day levelled at the young, not a quotation of Socrates. Freeman actually wrote: “The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise.” No such passage appears in Plato, Xenophon, or any ancient source. As Quote Investigator documents, the line was pinned on Socrates by 1922.

Last verified 10 Jul 2026 · how we verify · spot an error?

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Disputed credit — copy with the correction

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise” Not Socrates. This line is a modern paraphrase of Kenneth John Freeman, Schools of Hellas (1907), p. 74 — Freeman's own summary of ancient complaints about the young, never a quotation of Socrates.

The slide-ready mistake: crediting this to Socrates. Use the credit shown above instead.

Can you use it?

We couldn’t verify where this wording comes from, so there’s no rights status to give. Safe to present as an unverified or anonymous line — just don’t assert a specific author or source.

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In context

Evoking the world of Kenneth John Freeman — Cambridge classicist · author of Schools of Hellas (1907). Theme: "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise". Atmospheric and restrained, cinematic directional light, a muted period-appropriate palette, fine grain and texture. Compose with generous empty space for the quote and a small credit line. No lettering in the image itself.

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Minimalist editorial slide for the quote "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise". Clean background, a single muted accent color, generous negative space, subtle paper or linen texture, no literal illustration — let the words carry it. Reserve clear space for a serif quote and a small credit line. No lettering in the image itself.

Provenance

The real source

Work
Schools of Hellas: An Essay on the Practice and Theory of Ancient Greek Education from 600 to 300 B.C.
Author
Kenneth John Freeman (1882–1906)
Published
Macmillan & Co., London, 1907 (p. 74)
Status
Freeman's own summary of ancient complaints — not a quotation of Socrates

The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise. Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. Freeman's summary, not Socrates

Freeman's actual 1907 wording (as documented by Quote Investigator). The familiar “The children now love luxury…” version is a later paraphrase that recast his prose into a first-person ‘quotation.’

Quote Investigator: Misbehaving Children in Ancient Times

How a 1907 paraphrase became a 'Socrates quote'

The underlying passage — Freeman's Schools of Hellas (1907) — is itself long in the public domain (published well before 1931). But the popular first-person wording (“The children now love luxury…”) is not Freeman's text; it is an anonymous 20th-century paraphrase whose exact phrasing evolved through newspapers, so the specific wording shown here has no single identifiable, datable source. We therefore mark the status uncertain rather than claim public-domain for a line no one is documented to have authored in this form.

Fact-check

A fake Socrates quotation

This is one of the internet’s most persistent fake ‘ancient wisdom’ quotes. The thought is real 20th-century scholarship; the Socrates label is an error.

Most of the internetSocrates Fabricated attribution

Attributed to Socrates on countless quote sites and social posts, but no such passage exists in Plato, Xenophon, or any text preserving Socrates’ words. Quote Investigator shows it was pinned to Socrates only in 1922.

Some versionsPlato Also wrong

Occasionally credited to Plato because Freeman’s passage broadly evokes Plato’s Republic, but Freeman was summarising, not quoting — the words are his, per Kiwi Hellenist.

WordingParaphrase

Even the ‘real’ text is paraphrased: Freeman wrote “The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise” — later recast into the smoother first-person ‘quotation’ seen today.

The true author is Cambridge scholar Kenneth John Freeman, writing in Schools of Hellas (1907) — his own summary of ancient grumbles, never the words of Socrates (Quote Investigator).

Context

Why it spread

The quote endures because it flatters a comforting idea: that adults have complained about ‘kids these days’ since antiquity, so today’s worries are nothing new. Freeman’s 1907 passage genuinely captured that ancient sentiment — which is exactly why it was so easy to mistake his summary for an actual ancient voice.

Once a 1922 newspaper attached the name ‘Socrates,’ the borrowed authority made the line irresistible. Even Malcolm Forbes’ magazine tried and failed to trace it in the 1960s, and it still circulates as gospel today.

An authentic idea about the ancient world — wearing a fake ancient name.

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Filed under

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The author

About Kenneth John Freeman

Kenneth John Freeman

1882–1906 · Cambridge classicist · author of Schools of Hellas (1907)

Kenneth John Freeman was a young Cambridge classical scholar whose dissertation, Schools of Hellas: An Essay on the Practice and Theory of Ancient Greek Education from 600 to 300 B.C., was published posthumously in 1907 (edited by M. J. Rendall, with a preface by A. W. Verrall). On page 74 he paraphrased the standard ancient grumbles about badly-behaved youth to give readers the flavour of the era. He never presented the lines as a quotation — and certainly not as the words of Socrates. Decades of newspapers turned his summary into a fake ‘Socrates said’ quotation.

For writers & researchers

Cite this

Primary source + fact-check

Kenneth John Freeman, Schools of Hellas: An Essay on the Practice and Theory of Ancient Greek Education from 600 to 300 B.C. (London: Macmillan & Co., 1907), 74. Misattribution traced in Quote Investigator, "Misbehaving Children in Ancient Times," 1 May 2010.

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Quotle.info. “Who really said ‘The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise’?” Last verified 10 Jul 2026. https://quotle.info/who-said/the-children-now-love-luxury-they-have-bad-manners-contempt

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