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Who really said it

We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first — rock and roll or Christianity

Spoken by John Lennon
Attribution status: Verified Reuse status: In copyright

Lennon said it to journalist Maureen Cleave at his Weybridge home, and it ran in her profile “How Does a Beatle Live? John Lennon Lives Like This” in the London Evening Standard on 4 March 1966. The full article — reprinted by permission of the Evening Standard — carries the sentence word for word, and Wikiquote files it in its sourced section, not among the disputed.

Last verified 7 Aug 2026 · how we verify · spot an error?

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Verified quote & credit

“We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first — rock and roll or Christianity” John Lennon, interviewed by Maureen Cleave, "How Does a Beatle Live? John Lennon Lives Like This," London Evening Standard, 4 March 1966. The printed article reads "rock 'n' roll"; "rock and roll" is a common rendering. Verified via Quotle.info. · Verbatim: “We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first — rock 'n' roll or Christianity.”

Can you use it?

Still under copyright (rights held by Evening Standard, London (the article as published); the estate of Maureen Cleave). A short, credited quote is generally fine for talks, teaching, and internal decks; for commercial, published, or large-scale reuse, get permission.

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In context

Evoking the world of John Lennon — English singer-songwriter, co-founder of the Beatles. Theme: "We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first — rock and roll or Christianity". Atmospheric and restrained, cinematic directional light, a muted period-appropriate palette, fine grain and texture. Compose with generous empty space for the quote and a small credit line. No lettering in the image itself.

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Minimalist editorial slide for the quote "We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first — rock and roll or Christianity". Clean background, a single muted accent color, generous negative space, subtle paper or linen texture, no literal illustration — let the words carry it. Reserve clear space for a serif quote and a small credit line. No lettering in the image itself.

Provenance

The interview

Article
How Does a Beatle Live? John Lennon Lives Like This
Published
London Evening Standard, 4 March 1966
Interviewer
Maureen Cleave (1934–2021)
Setting
Lennon’s home at Weybridge, Surrey

Experience has sown few seeds of doubt in him: not that his mind is closed, but it’s closed round whatever he believes at the time. “Christianity will go,” he said. “It will vanish and shrink. I needn’t argue about that; I’m right and I will be proved right. We’re more popular than Jesus now; I don’t know which will go first—rock ’n’ roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It’s them twisting it that ruins it for me.” He is reading extensively about religion. Evening Standard, 4 March 1966

Taken from the complete article as reprinted by permission of the Evening Standard. Note that the printed text reads “rock ’n’ roll” and uses a dash where many reproductions use a comma — the substance is unchanged.

Full article, reprinted by permission
Read Maureen Cleave's complete 1966 profile
The paragraph in context, with dating and background

How we checked it

Fact-check

What goes wrong with this one

The attribution is right — this is one of the rare famous-name quotes that survives checking intact. What travels badly is the wording and the meaning.

Wording“We’re bigger than Jesus” Paraphrase

The form almost everyone repeats. Wikipedia’s account of the affair notes that “bigger than Jesus” has been used in analysis of the controversy, but Lennon’s words were “more popular than Jesus” ↗. “Bigger” sounds like a boast; “more popular” was an observation about audience size.

MeaningA claim that the Beatles outranked Christ Misreading

Both speaker and journalist rejected this. Cleave said “John was certainly not comparing The Beatles with Christ” ↗ but observing how weak Christianity had become; Lennon, in Chicago on 11 August 1966 ↗, said he had used “Beatles” as a remote example and could have said television instead.

SettingAn outburst on the 1966 American tour Wrong occasion

It was said quietly at home in Weybridge and printed in London on 4 March 1966, to almost no reaction. The firestorm came months later, when the American teen magazine Datebook put half the sentence on its September 1966 cover ↗.

Styling“rock and roll” Variant

A harmless house-style difference, worth knowing if you are quoting precisely: the Evening Standard text prints “rock ’n’ roll” ↗, while many reproductions, including Wikiquote, spell it out.

Lennon said it, in these words, to Maureen Cleave — and the sentence is printed verbatim in her Evening Standard article of 4 March 1966 ↗. It is the paraphrase — and the reading — that are wrong, not the attribution.

Context

Why it mattered

The remark caused almost nothing in Britain. It ran on a Friday in March 1966 in a chatty profile about a rich 25-year-old who couldn’t remember what day it was, and British readers — in a country where church attendance was already sliding — largely shrugged. The sentence only became a scandal when it crossed the Atlantic stripped of the paragraph around it.

In its September 1966 issue, which reached American media on 29 July, the teen magazine Datebook put the second half of the line on its cover: “I don’t know which will go first — rock ’n’ roll or Christianity.” Southern radio stations organised record burnings, the Ku Klux Klan picketed, and on 11 August 1966 Lennon sat in front of the cameras at Chicago’s Astor Tower Hotel and apologised. The Beatles played their last commercial concert in San Francisco on 29 August 1966.

“If I had said television is more popular than Jesus, I might have got away with it.”

What Lennon said he meant

At the Chicago press conference he unpicked his own sentence: “I used the word ‘Beatles’ as a remote thing — not as what ‘I’ think as Beatles — as those other Beatles like other people see us. I just said ‘they’ are having more influence on kids and things than anything else, including Jesus. But I said it that way which is the wrong way.”

Cleave herself defended the reading: “John was certainly not comparing the Beatles with Christ. He was simply observing that so weak was the state of Christianity that the Beatles were, to many people, better known.” She added that he had intended to be ironic.

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The man who actually said it

John Lennon

John Lennon

1940–1980 · English singer-songwriter, co-founder of the Beatles

Born in Liverpool on 9 October 1940, Lennon co-founded the Beatles and, with Paul McCartney, wrote one of the most-covered songbooks in popular music. He was 25 when Maureen Cleave spent a day with him for the Evening Standard — bored in a mock-Tudor house in the stockbroker belt, reading extensively about religion, and, as Cleave put it, with a mind “closed round whatever he believes at the time.” He was shot dead in New York on 8 December 1980.

For writers & researchers

Cite this

Primary source

Cleave, Maureen. “How Does a Beatle Live? John Lennon Lives Like This.” London Evening Standard, March 4, 1966. Reprinted in Read the Beatles: Classic and New Writings on the Beatles, Their Legacy, and Why They Still Matter, ed. June Skinner Sawyers (New York: Penguin Books, 2006).

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Quotle.info. “Who really said ‘We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first — rock and roll or Christianity’?” Last verified 7 Aug 2026. https://quotle.info/who-said/were-more-popular-than-jesus-now-i-dont-know-which-will-go/

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